> In most other Western countries the universities are pretty much the same as American ones, just without the crippling costs.
The sticker price is misleading though. There are scholarships for merit and grants for need. Work study (often in makework jobs with ample downtime for studying) for almost anyone who seeks them out.
Even after that, employers in competitive fields offer loan repayment as a starting bonus, or doled out over time for retention. Work in public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness.
Even without that, the loan companies have provisions for indefinite deferment during unemployment and automatic forbearance during enrollment in any other academic program. Income based repayment is a standard option. Essentially, if you wanted to break the system, you could pay full price for a ridiculously priced private school degree then probably go work at starbucks and send them $20 a month for a while, then go take four years off to study pottery at a community college to pay $0 a month while the fed pays all your interest.
Oh, then even after that, even if you are actually personally paying interest on a loan, historically the rates have been competitive (though that flipped a few years back), and there are tax credits for education spending, and deductions that kick in even when you're just repaying school loans.
The most surprising feature of the American system to me is not the price, but how hard it works to camouflage all its progressive and meritocratic features.
> The sticker price is misleading... There are scholarships... Work study... employers... offer loan repayments... public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness
Most of these (scholarships, work study) are available in other countries without the sticker price in the USA. Employers don't need to offer loan repayment as a starting bonus in other countries because the sticker price isn't so ridiculous.
It worries me how you rationalize this away - what happens if you don't get a scholarship or that loan repayment as a starting bonus and don't want to work for the government? If you just want to work for a mid-tier accounting firm then your education could be costing you an astronomical portion of your paycheck.
My experience supports the view that even with aid, American university prices can be prohibitively high.
Back in 2011, I got into a few prestigious schools (CMU, U Chicago) that talked a big game about need-based aid. They trimmed a good bit off the sticker price for me, but it was still more than I could afford without getting into more debt than I was comfortable with. I'm graduating next month from the University of Pittsburgh where I pay no tuition because I grew up nearby and my high school performance was up to par. So my friends who do pay tuition are subsidizing my degree.
> Most of these (scholarships, work study) are available in other countries without the sticker price in the USA.
That's a distinction without a difference if almost no one is paying the sticker price except for the trust fund kid without any ability or willingness to work.
> It worries me how you rationalize this away
I disagree with you because the alternative model, "free or cheap for all," ends up subsidizing that trust fund kid who has no ability or desire to work. If you're subsidizing the rich, it's ultimately at the expense of the poor. It's a regressive system dressed up as progressive, it's just a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Characterizing our disagreement as "me rationalizing something away" though is undeservedly patronizing. If I responded in kind the discussion would quickly devolve into name calling.
We have a good faith disagreement. We can treat it that way or just not bother discussing it.
The sticker price is misleading though. There are scholarships for merit and grants for need. Work study (often in makework jobs with ample downtime for studying) for almost anyone who seeks them out.
Even after that, employers in competitive fields offer loan repayment as a starting bonus, or doled out over time for retention. Work in public service makes some eligible for loan forgiveness.
Even without that, the loan companies have provisions for indefinite deferment during unemployment and automatic forbearance during enrollment in any other academic program. Income based repayment is a standard option. Essentially, if you wanted to break the system, you could pay full price for a ridiculously priced private school degree then probably go work at starbucks and send them $20 a month for a while, then go take four years off to study pottery at a community college to pay $0 a month while the fed pays all your interest.
Oh, then even after that, even if you are actually personally paying interest on a loan, historically the rates have been competitive (though that flipped a few years back), and there are tax credits for education spending, and deductions that kick in even when you're just repaying school loans.
The most surprising feature of the American system to me is not the price, but how hard it works to camouflage all its progressive and meritocratic features.
http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/04/college-is-chea...