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Will the US prosecute Greenwald for the leak? No way. If they do that, it will be harder to say anything about free speech or freedom of the press in this country, and that is not the American way.

What is, unfortunately, the American way, is to try to find something else to charge him with (see Assange for example), not only to silence him but also to discredit him. Do not be surprised if allegations of pedophilia or other crimes are made.

Many decades ago my mother's uncle (http://depts.washington.edu/labhist/cpproject/caughlan_inter...) began to build his private legal practice on defending people from Smith Act prosecutions due to involvement with the Communist Party USA (ironically he never really considered profit much of a motivator for him, and he left a high powered law firm to defend the Community Party), distributing Marxist literature, and the like. Did the government come after him? Yes. With the Smith Act? No. They didn't want to come right out and say "we don't want these people to have good legal representation." Instead they came with a variety of unrelated, and eventually sent him to prison for a year. Unusually he was reinstated to the bar on his release (which is somewhat unusual). (Listening to the interviews with him, I hadn't known he was kicked out of the ACLU for defending civil liberties of Communists.)

The goal wasn't to throw him in prison but to take away his voice. It didn't work with John. He went on to fight, fight, and fight some more, eventually winning significant victories for political freedom in this country. With someone like Greenwald, though I don't know. It does seem to have been fairly effective at discrediting Assange.

I harp a lot on "Show me the man and I'll find you the crime" and certainly we are not at the same level the Stalinist USSR was, but I can tell you that it is something that has roots in the US as well.



Assange hasn't been charged with anything by the US.


All the better to say we had nothing to do with it, but given that he was charged during the controversy do you really think that had nothing to do with it?

My mother's uncle, John Caughlan, was charged first with purjury for claiming he was never a member of the Communist Party at an immigration hearing (where he was an attorney, on behalf of, I think Hazel Wolf), and then on various tax technicalities, and so forth until something stuck. He eventually spent a year in jail. The further it is removed from the controversy the better.

That Assange and Greenwald are outside the US makes them easier targets for accusations passed on to foreign police forces.


Not yet. But numerous news articles suggest that the US Government has a sealed indictment all ready to go as soon as they can kidnap him.


But, but, he's a rapist! So we should all denounce him.

This is the view now held by most about Assange, sadly.

On the note of Greenwald, it looks like it's already started:

Gabriel Schoenfeld, a national security expert and senior fellow at the Hudson Institute who is often on the opposite ends of issues from Mr. Greenwald, called him, “a highly professional apologist for any kind of anti-Americanism no matter how extreme.”

They'll be calling him a terrorist within the week.


I still stand by it, they will pay someone to make accusations of pedophilia or something. Calling him a terrorist is too close to the controversy. The approach taken to Assange is far more effective.


This time around, I wonder if some "rogue" politician will suggest that a drone should airstrike him.


Still too close. Far better to find something to tarnish his character.


> But, but, he's a rapist! So we should all denounce him.

The U.S. didn't charge him with that.

> On the note of Greenwald, it looks like it's already started:

What's already started? People call their political opponents names all the time.


> The U.S. didn't charge him with that.

Nope, they got Sweden to do it for them.


Do you know Sweden? I cannot believe that to be true. We are not talking about Iraq or GB, but a strong European democracy, with no extraordinary ties to the US.

Sure, the victims might be lying. But I would trust a Swedish court to decide on that any day.


I am wondering how hard it would be for the CIA to pay someone to make an accusation? It need not involve a conspiracy between governments. You pay someone to make an accusation, press charges or find some other way of applying pressure and let the other government respond to it.

Look at who you'd have to have on board for something like this:

Do you need the prosecutor on board? Not if he thinks the allegations are true.

Do you need the Swedish government on board? Not if they believe the allegations might be true.

Do you need the alleged victim on board? Yes. This is the only one you really need on board to do such a thing.


Are we talking about the same Sweden which had lax laws on copyright but upon pressure from the United States (including threats of trade sanctions) ended up arresting The Pirate Bay founders?


That sort of claim seems to warrant extraordinary proof. Do you happen to have any?


Are we to understand that Sweden has not charged him? Why then are they trying to extradite him?


Sorry, but that statement about Greenwald is basically true. People are multi-faceted, and Greenwald is by no means perfect. IMHO, he says a lot of extremely stupid, barely defensible things. It doesn't take away from the work he's done exposing the NSA spying. But his success there doesn't make him a saint either.


What are some of the barely defensible things he's argued for?


Sam Harris has impugned his character on twitter and his blog.

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/dear-fellow-liberal2


I don't see how that's really relevant to literally anything.

The crux of Greenwald's response:

"Given that I had never written about Sam Harris, I found it odd that I had become the symbol of Harris-bashing for some of his faithful followers. Tweeting a link to an Al Jazeera column about Harris and saying I find one of his quotes revealing does not make me responsible for every claim in that column...That said, what I did say in my emails with Harris - and what I unequivocally affirm again now - is not that Harris is a "racist", but rather that he and others like him spout and promote Islamophobia under the guise of rational atheism."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/03/sam-harr...

edit: by not relevant, I mean that Sam Harris's opinion of Greenwald doesn't mean that Greenwald has indefensible opinions.


More to the point of your response to; "Greenwald is by no means perfect."

I agree that he is by no means perfect and can hold views that can be seen as the parent's point.


I was asking for clarification on Greenwald's "barely defensible" positions. Sam Harris's gripe with him isn't really about that.


I highly doubt anything will happen to Greenwald. He's too high profile, and this case is too high profile. They got away with prosecuting leakers because they were obscure.


What do you mean "got away with"? These laws exist to deter leaking, and that only works if people believe they'll be applied. Do you think they're worried about losing votes over this? There's only a handful of congresspeople who are vocally against it, and most of the American people don't care. "It's called protecting America." - Sen. Dianne Feinstein, (D-California). Who's there to vote for?


> Do you think they're worried about losing votes over this?

I think they'd like the controversy to die, not stoke it.


Few things were higher profile than WikiLeaks and Julian Assange, and they certainly took away his voice. Now he is relegated to being a sideshow -- a novelty to gawk and point at (not unlike a caged beast).


Who is "they"? The vast international conspiracy where the U.S. government pulls the puppet strings of Scandinavian countries? Because if there is anything the Scandinavians are known for, its being puppets of the U.S. right?


The puppet strings you refer to are trade (and other economic development) agreements.

The other Scandinavian countries may not have had such close ties to the US as Sweden, however US-Sweden relations have a rich and storied history[1] stretching back quite far (with particular emphasis on defense against Soviet aggressions).

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US-Sweden_relations


It's not like Sweden is a surveillance state or something

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRA_law


Which cuts in favor of my point: Sweden had its own motivations for prosecuting Assagne.


They get away with prosecuting leakers because leaking classified information (while often noble) is a crime.

The issue is prosecution of journalists for publishing said info, which is not a crime.





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