Nissan Leaf now starts at $28k. Chevy Bolt is now $26.5k (was, now discontinued). Given that the dolphin goes for $21k in Mexico, it isn't a huge price diff, definitely not 2-3x. Not sure where you see Model 3 for just $30k, it starts at $40k in the USA. Only in China does a model 3 cost $32k.

> Not sure where you see Model 3 for just $30k, it starts at $40k in the USA

Probably from Tesla.com. It lists the long range RWD cash price as $29920 (in my state) unless you notice the checked checkbox that says "Include est. incentives of $7,500 and 5-year gas savings of $<whatever> for <your_state>" and uncheck it.

$whatever is $5000 for my state.

Still expensive for a swastika.

This will be interesting to unpack, seeing what happens to Tesla in a marketing theory sense.

I predict that Chinese and us manufacturers will partner or rebadge Mexican or Canadian made Chinese EVs within a decade

Also, I believe the sodium ion battery has yet to impact the EV market. In theory a 200-300 mile car of sodium ion batteries should be 1/2 that of NCM drivetrain or less. That should enable a sub 10k car even in the us

> Nissan Leaf now starts at $28k.

Kinda missing the point that you get 50% more range in the Dolphin, plus a lot of additional niceties / tech stuff that is just not available in the Leaf.

There are more competitive cars at the price point in Europe (the Leaf is kinda long in the tooth now; second-gen is 8 years old), but the US is likely not a priority market for cheap EVs; it's a smaller market for EVs _in general_ than either Europe or China, and it's also not a good market for small cars.

I assume that the 25k EUR id.2 (replacement for the VW eUp, out early next year) will launch in the US, tho, and should be competitive with the Dolphin.

> Kinda missing the point that you get 50% more range in the Dolphin,

Nissan leaf: 240 km (149 miles) for the 40 kWh version and 341 km (212 miles) for the 62 kWh version.

BYD Dolphin: 340 km (211 mi) for the 45 Kwh version, 427 km (265 mi) for the 60kWh version. The cheapest 30 KwH version doesn't have a WLTP range that I can find (I don't think it is being exported outside of China anyways according to wiki).

Leaf is less, but it isn't 50% of the range.

Not 50% but 240km to 340km is still more than 40%. Not too bad.

The Chevy Bolt was discontinued.

Not exactly. There is a 2025/26 model coming out. They just stopped selling it while they moved it to a new platform and battery.

https://electrek.co/2025/02/06/first-look-new-chevy-bolt-ev-...

Oops, I missed that. The Leaf is still for sale.

The Leaf has just been discontinued and Nissan is running out the remaining stock at about 30% discount, making it one of the cheapest EVs in the market where I live. If it's the car you want, now's a good time to buy a Leaf.

There'll be another one along next year, though it may or may not be called a Leaf.

Doesn't that have very bad battery degradation due to lack of cooling system for it? That's what my friend said who is really into EVs. Personally I don't have any type of car.

Well… I mean that was the case 8 years ago, though it was somewhat exaggerated (it was a first-gen Leaf thing; the first gen was only made 2010-2017).

Nissan Leaf has 2nd generation that is supposed to have fixed the battery degradation.

Still sad about this. The Bolt is an incredible EV that's perfect for its price point.

https://www.tesla.com/model3 says "From $29,9901"

Isn’t that including tax breaks? Yes after checking the cheapest is $42k the advertised price includes 7500 tax break and 5000 in gas savings.

Subsidies. Basically all savers in China that have money in the bank have to pay for development of what the central Government considers a priority, like steel and aluminium production, solar panels or EV vehicles, or chip manufacturing.

Aluminium and steel costs significantly less in China than the rest of the world, but they now face significant problems because of overcapacity. There are so much factories built and so small demand companies can not survive without help from the Government. They were build thanks to cheap loans from the Government.

So the Government made an investment that is not making money, so basically is a transfer of wealth from bank savers account to industry.

This is also applied in the US and EU, let's remember interest rates below inflation, "Quantitative Easing" and other transfers of wealth the central banks do in the West.

Tesla was also subsidised.

> There are so much factories built and so small demand companies can not survive without help from the Government. They were build thanks to cheap loans from the Government.

It feels like this is true for any older Western country like Germany or the UK too. Why exactly have China been successful in reducing costs?

Just check the comments here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42942405

China boasts a complete industrial chain and the best logistics infrastructure. If you want to engage in industrial production, you can find the most suppliers here, who can provide you with the parts you need at the fastest speed and lowest logistics cost.

Not to mention the largest number of educated workers, who won't leave marijuana in the products you send to customers.

These are all factors that can actually reduce costs, which cannot be achieved solely by subsidies.

The subsidies in China have been significantly larger.

Besides that, EVs in the US are targeting a different market segment. It's for people who would be buying a $40K SUV, not those buying a $20K Corolla.

Labor costs and a manufacturing industry that isn’t hyperfinancialized by the government

There are tons of used Leafs online for under 8k USD that still have a range of 60-100 miles. Perfect around town car but the price seems to reflect that no one wants one.

Early Leafs ate batteries, so the really cheap used ones often need a potentially unavailable replacement battery.

You can easily get a used EV in good working order for under $15K though: https://insideevs.com/features/715984/best-used-evs-on-a-bud...

Take a look at the used market. For example, I regularly see used nissan leaf's for under $3,000

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=niss...

China has heavily subsidized EV production in order to become a leader in that area (particularly battery production). Same thing they did with solar panels.

Yes, and that list includes almost no cars under $200 a month. Just go and check it.

They’re not including the downpayment.

American companies have been using the excuse of “more technology/screens” to justify the higher price points. Then using vague “inflation”/“pandemic”/“supply chain issues” to justify higher prices.

However as we witnessed during the pandemic, manufacturers of goods tend to increase the cost of the goods despite minimal increase in supply chain, cost of materials or labor. It’s all for maximizing profit and they were “testing” the market to reap massive profits.

With no competition, they (collectively as an industry) felt no need to decrease prices or offer cheaper vehicle options.

I also suspect abuse of CAFE exceptions (ie, “light duty trucks”) is the second leading cause of the death of affordable vehicles.

BYD also charges ~double the price in other markets, including Mexico, compared to China. That makes it very close to a base Model 3, for much less car.

This seems like doing a lot of +++ on one side and --- on the other, to say "its cheaper, for a cheaper car"

1) it's not as expensive as a model 3 in mexico

2) it's not as much lower end, when it comes to what drivers want, noting FSD is not actually on anyones radar, or "free" with the low end models

3) it's cheaper by a margin most people on rational incomes close to average would say is a LOT of money.

1) It is about 30% more, rather than 150% more, as suggested here. Very different.

2) Agreed, that it is a car for much cheaper. However, it will likely not last as long. Excluding FSD, Autopilot is free and a better comparison.

3) Again, simply pointing out the discrepancy in claimed cost vs actual.