Then it's topical for understanding the makeup of ATC controllers right now, isn't it? The impact of hiring decisions in 2018 would continue through their retirement age in the 2050's.

We still talk about Reagan's mass-firing of ATC controllers, and that event was in *1981*. The impact is multi-generational and is still very visible.

Not necessarily. In the reparations lawsuit, there are only 1000ish individuals. Assuming all of them would have qualified, you are talking about around 2% of the current workforce. Not nothing. But the last admin grew the workforce by more numbers. And did not have this policy.

So, by all means, chase reparations. But don't think you've stumbled on the reason, either.

What makes you think this wasn’t indicative of how the agency was run?

The test was shut down because it was obvious and egregious: https://www.tracingwoodgrains.com/p/the-faas-hiring-scandal-.... But the people who designed it didn’t resign.

Innuendo is a weak argument. Show evidence for your claims; it is not sufficient to demand other people somehow prove your feelings are wrong.

The evidence is shortages and safety incidents and that hiring scandal. Now we're able to use instinct and "innuendo" (as you call it) to find more rot

But what evidence is there that the shortage was caused by those 'DEI' policies? For example, in 2013 the FAA Academy was shut down for most of the year (April - December) due to the sequester. They had planned to hire more than 1300 controllers that year but hired fewer than 600.

Additionally, part of the changes that brought along the biographical questionnaire had another major change: they opened up positions to the general public--meaning a candidate didn't need to go through one of the college-affiliated programs anymore. However, that also meant that people had to find their way through the on-boarding process, which at least initially was not well developed and many candidates failed to complete the necessary steps to move the process along.

I'm arguing that DEI/"biographical" standards are indicative of greater rot. The one and only priority of the FAA should be the safe and efficient operation of our nation's airways.

That we would sacrifice any amount of safety/efficiency in pursuit of other goals is a major problem.

I also apply this thinking to other fed gov programs (eg NSF, DoD, etc)

Edit: in other words, how many lives should we sacrifice in our civilian air travel to achieve equity?

Encouraging talented people from underrepresented or marginalised groups to apply, for example through DEI programs, will help find the best candidates to ensure safe and efficient operation.

But that’s not what they were doing. They gerrymandered a biographical test to achieve a particular racial balance.

What you’re describing is the motte of DEI. And that’s great. But it often turns into the bailey of “racial preferences or quotas.” Which is illegal.

I don’t agree with you that safety was sacrificed in the name of diversity or equity.

We sacrificed those lives to save money. End of story.

You need to demonstrate a causal connection.

How do you not know that? Where did you go to high school?

While you conduct those studies the adults in the room will go get things done

I highly doubt adults use "instinct" as an accessory to the scientific method.

Not for the laboratory, but yes for running complex operations in the real world. E.g. logistics, war, agriculture

What evidence have you that it was a present problem?

I think there are only about 10,000 active controllers (not in training)

Apologies, I do think I screwed the numbers. Rerunning, it seems the actual compute to about 5%? That has to keep the assumption that all in the reparations suite would have passed.

It is a budget problem.

https://thehill.com/regulation/transportation/4617992-buttig...

Yes! How long does it take to go from a brand new applicant to an ATC controller that can successfully run ops in the DC airspace? What about that person's supervisor?

I'm pretty sure what's more topical is Trump telling all ATC controllers to leave, immediately. Rather than a shitty test that was used for a few years and then phased out.

This is disengenious. They received the same deferred resignation email that every other federal employee got. They weren't told to 'leave immediately' nor was anyone else, they were offered an option to leave or stay on for 9 months, with pay. I'm getting frustrated at 'my people' seemingly just making things up on this topic.

Edit: Also linking another comment where ATC was literally told they're not in the offer... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42899944

If I get an email from my superior telling me to either pledge loyalty or resign I'm going to read the very obvious writing on the wall here. You would have to be a massive idiot to not see it.

And the ATC was told they're not included in the offer after the emails were already sent out. Like you trying to reframe it and add more context makes it more stupid, not less.

>pledge loyalty or resign

This is made up. It's a layoff letter like we see at big corps any other week. "We're reorganizing, here's an offer, take it or not, your job might get cut in 9 months."

Well, it's not made up. I think it's fair to interpret it that way. The word 'loyal' literally appears in the text.

"Enhanced standards of conduct: The federal workforce should be comprised of employees who are reliable, loyal, trustworthy, and who strive for excellence in their daily work. Employees will be subject to enhanced standards of suitability and conduct as we move forward. Employees who engage in unlawful behavior or other misconduct will be prioritized for appropriate investigation and discipline, including termination."

They didn't make anything up. What they said is 100% accurate and lines up with what you said, you just have additional context they didn't have. Your fight should be with the reporting outlets because that is how they are reporting it.

> Trump telling all ATC controllers to leave, immediately

this is not 100% accurate by any definition of the word accurate. It is an interpretation of a letter, and a wrong one in my opinion.

Believe me I'm quite pissed at the media for finally making both sides of the US political spectrum equally uninterested in facts

The fact that it was done in the first place is widely known and would discourage many from even considering a career in ATC. The negative effects are still in play.

The same for military recruitment.

Have you asked any? I mean has anyone literally told you this?

Because people here in the field are saying what discourages others from applying is low pay and high stress. Yet you seem to think it’s an outdated hiring practice, so who told you that?

No, not directly. but I've been reading news items about how military recruitment is falling well short of goals, and how traditional pools from which recruits are drawn are now ignoring recruitment offers.

We also had 20 years of pointless wars that were started with lies and cost several trillion dollars. And we saw the people who fought in those wars were discarded into the gutter. They actually ruined a lot of lives.

Maybe that has something to do with why recruitment is down. But no, you're probably right it's DEI.