My values include empathy, generosity, and kindness. Selfishness is most often incompatible with those values.

Does that mean you get good feelings from being unselfish?

No, not really. Following my values usually feels neutral. Sometimes it feels absolutely terrible.

What I'm trying to tell you is that this is an intrinsic goal, not an instrumental goal. If you were to ask me, "why do you have values?" or "why do you follow your values?" I wouldn't even know how to answer, it would be like asking a fish why it swims.

> No, not really.

Then why do you do it? How would you feel if you did act selfishly?

I've already addressed this. Why does a fish swim? What would a fish do if it wasn't swimming?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrumental_and_intrinsic_val...

Alternatively; why do you do things you enjoy? Why do you do things that benefit you? Why does it matter to derive benefit?

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As far as I see it, the point of contention here is that you believe there exists only one intrinsic goal. I not only disagree but contend that I experience other intrinsic goals.

At this point, I don't really see how one of us could convince the other. You don't believe my self-reported experience for one reason or another. I know I have other intrinsic goals, so your hypothesis is exploded from my perspective. I was trying to demonstrate that you don't have access to other people's experiences and can't really know what motivates them, but you seem unmoved.

But if you have a different idea or line of argument I'm happy to entertain it.

> Why does a fish swim?

It will likely die if it does not. Animals' actions are an endless search for food and mates and stimulation.

> you believe there exists only one intrinsic goal

Only one? No. But it does underly our decisions and actions.

> I was trying to demonstrate that you don't have access to other people's experiences and can't really know what motivates them, but you seem unmoved

I'm unmoved because I see how selfishness destroys about every human initiative that relies on unselfish behavior.

Frankly, I don't believe you do things from which you derive neither benefit nor satisfaction. Even people who self-harm derive a benefit from it.

>> Why does a fish swim?

A fish swims because a fish swims. (It's an idiom.)

> Only one? No.

If you actually believed this I don't think you'd have much reason to doubt me when I said I had an intrinsic goal other than selfishness. Why would you unless you believed it was impossible?

> Frankly, I don't believe you do things from which you derive neither benefit nor satisfaction.

This would seem to imply you do believe there exists only one intrinsic goal. So I'm not really sure what you're trying to say.

Is it possible to have an intrinsic goal other than selfishness, or isn't it?