> Nope. Imposing certain islamic values is not democractic because those values would contradict more fundamental democratic values.

What are “democratic values” though? A lot of people seem to use the phrase to mean whatever values they personally endorse - but what makes those values “democratic”? How do we decide what values count as “democratic”?

> Easy examples: Killing off a minority.

I think “genocide is wrong” is a value which the vast majority of people share. But what makes that a democratic value?

Same point about all your other examples - whether the values you support are the right ones or the wrong ones, what makes them “democratic”?

In a pure majoritarian democracy, whatever the majority wants, they get - even if they want something bad like genocide. Of course, I don’t think genocide is right, even if the majority wants it - but that’s not a “democratic value”, that’s a case where some values (such as the wrongness of genocide) are more important than democratic values, and ought to win out when they conflict with the value of democracy.

Democratic means all the people rule. Look it up some time. If you kill off a part of those people they don't rule. If you don't let them vote, if you deny them certain other rights and liberty, they don't rule.

This is much more well defined than you try to argue. Your main argument is basically your ignorance of much of political theory for the past two centuries at least...

> Democratic means all the people rule.

What about 17 year olds? They don't get to vote, so by your definition, you don't have a democracy.

Drop the voting age to 16, as some propose? Then 15 year olds still don't get to vote, so you still don't have a democracy.

The argument about age is that you need to be of a certain age to make these decisions. Not because you shouldn't have the right, but rather because you don't have the facilities yet to "rule yourself and others". And the cutoff point is arbitrary.

But an arbitrary cutoff point is arbitrarily denying the right to those who do have those faculties–maybe the average 15 year old lacks them (although where is the evidence to support that claim?), but even if that's true, certainly some 15 year olds are more intelligent/well-informed/mature than average, and likely some of those 15 year olds have greater "faculties to rule" than many people far older than them do. If, as you claim, democracy really means "all the people rule", then an arbitrary rule that no 15 year old can vote is incompatible with democracy, hence democracy nowhere actually exists at present.

You suffer from extreme black and white thinking. There can either be full democracy or no democracy, right? In reality there are blemishes, deficits in a democracy. Some are quite minor, like an extremely well educated 15 year old not being allowed to vote.

More serious: foreign nationals who live in the same country aren't allowed to vote despite paying taxes and being subject to the laws. More serious still: Minorities and in general "Democratic" voters are kept from turning out by discriminative voter suppresion. That's a deficit on democracy. Or when you incarcerate a ton of people, especially with racial preference. Or when you take away bodily autonomy from women with a ban on abortion, when men cant get pregnant and have more ways to extricate themselves of those consequences. Black and white thinking is not the way

Letting adults of sound mind vote is a “democratic value” by definition. The other stuff you’re talking about is liberal western values and unrelated to democracy.