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The cause is companies refuse to fund education and refuse to take on graduates. The system is meant to be that new engineers learn from experienced engineers. This doesn't work when all the company wants is experienced engineers. It naturally leads to applicants abusing the hiring process.

This is the plain fact that those well off with their jobs just don't understand. Education is far too expensive, causing anyone but the funded kids to have to work - not focus on education. Walk into any university and see it in realtime. We treat students like cash cows, give them no support, and expect they will want to take on a hard degree when seniors are being turned down left and right? Yeah, no. American companies have created this problem for themselves and deserve to close their doors.



Very very true. Training is a lost art in the software industry. Facebook, to its credit, provides a bootcamp to new hires, which is rare enough to be industry.

The problem with offloading it to universities is you turn the academic and foundational theoretical into the practical, thus making them vocational schools.

There needs to be a system of apprenticeships in software, not just internships for some and co-ops for University of Waterloo students.


I call BS on this, at least in America. I went to community college and a middling state university. Pell Grants combined with various STEM and achievement-based scholarships covered my tuition and then some. When I graduated I applied for two jobs and had three offers (my current employer at the time also wanted to keep me).


Good for you, scholarships are non existent. There are very, very few, and are outside of the use of students in the middle class trap. Most scholarships want requirements that students cannot meet such as references and achievements.

Tuition and housing costs of university, at the cheapest of uni's just barely is covered by FAFSA federal and state grants + student loans at a $0 income. One of those grants are also dependent upon you working as a student. Private loans are a necessity and are not deferred, meaning you have to work even more. This does not include the cost of living in regards to buying lively goods.

When running the numbers it is a net negative. You cannot attend a university without an external income. That doesn't include anything else, no other costs.

Call BS as you wish, this is a fact I'm seeing infront of me. This is why people are up in arms about degrees and costs. This is why defunding universities is a necessary requirement to bring education back.


> There are very, very few, and are outside of the use of students in the middle class trap.

Granted I grew up poor, so perhaps middle class students are trapped. I assumed that college educated, middle class parents would otherwise step in where means testing kicks in.


I love these anecdotes. The only way to disagree with these is to tell the OP that they are too talented and skilled and that the average person wouldn’t make it in their shoes.


According to IQ tests I am literally mentally “retarded” and my SAT scores were in the lowest percentiles. I honestly have no idea how I got a BS degree and have worked in tech for over a decade. But if my dumb ass can do it, so can others.


I work for a consultancy and see the other side of this. We do hire graduates and train them up. And put them to work for clients who can't resource their own work. And then we can't retain them as they get senior roles at other companies.

I think a lot of companies are like an ecological niche that is tuned to a particular kind of candidate. That is actually part of the business model.


Yes, that is a common fear about the downside of training freshers, but that just means you need to try harder to cultivate loyalty. Have you considered investing in above-market pay raises, or alternatively, career development plans for these graduates?


Well, if you train the people and do not offer them extra perks or raises after they "graduate", you are going to lose those people.


I am not complaining.

Someone in my team recently left because they wanted a short commute to a sociable office which we could not offer them. They had already been given a promotion and pay rise without having asked for it. And the company has all the normal career development stuff. Yes they "graduated" and that is fine. It was the right choice for them.

And our business model has limited flexibility in terms of salary anyway. We are honest about that. But it is still a good fun job with lots of oppurtunities within the company or in the wider industry. But their is always a risk that those graduates will be exploited and that risk does make me uneasy.




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