Relatively few engineers actually want to do contract work. The day rates look high, but they have to pay self-employment taxes and health insurance, as well as charge more to cover inevitable gaps between contracts.
It seems unlikely that the existence of contract work is preventing senior engineers from joining your company. To be blunt, it’s more likely that you’re simply not paying enough to be competitive or you’re not an attractive place to work.
Without knowing more details about your specific situation, the obvious change would be to simply offer more compensation. Higher compensation can make an unattractive job more attractive.
> Relatively few engineers actually want to do contract work.
The better contractors I've worked with all do, here in the UK. The day rates are high. The taxes are the same or lower, health insurance is optional. There's some company insurances you need and you have to get an accountant, but all-in that should be covered by less than a week of work each year.
Gaps between contracts are desirable! Having a whole summer off to live on your accumulated war chest and chill out, it's amazing.
Plus jumping on to a new project every few months keeps the work interesting, rather than stagnating at the same desk for years on end.
I mean, it’s not surprising that people who are doing well in the contract market like the contract market.
For my part, I literally left the UK in part because the industry there was so geared towards contract work or boutique contract houses as the only viable career path for senior developers. It’s just not for everyone. I like staying with a product team and building and owning stuff; I like companies that build their technology in-house rather than outsourcing; I like being able to shape what the technology team contributes to the business rather than respond to already-baked RFPs. I like stock-based comp.
The UK tech job market is very well suited to certain kinds of developers and certain kinds of relationships between businesses (and frequently government organizations) and their technology providers.
I certainly agree that the UK market for senior tech people is very poor, you're right that past a certain point the only way to keep advancing in your career and keep raising your income is to strike out on your own this way.
I think it's incredibly short-sighted, but a lot of British businesses treat their software staff as equivalent to generic office inhabitants, rather than highly skilled software practitioners. They also seem to treat their tech staff like children.
Ah yes, the "highly skilled engineer paid at great expense but not allowed to have an extra pen" problem. Sounds ridiculous until you go and need to almost beg to get a pen.
Definitely for me. Having to sign for pens snd pencils was a thing at one place. They later went broke. My contract ended two years before they did, I wonder if it was the stationery budget or the bad will it caused?
There's a potential research paper in this somewhere: "Subtle consequences of mildly antagonistic workplace practices and their effect on annoying the crap out of people to the extent of later bankrupting a company due to the snowball effect."
> I think it's incredibly short-sighted, but a lot of British businesses treat their software staff as equivalent to generic office inhabitants, rather than highly skilled software practitioners. They also seem to treat their tech staff like children.
This is not just true for British businesses... it's common worldwide across everything that's not a tech startup. The older the people in management are, the less likely they are to even understand what the younger staff is talking about.
German Mittelstand is infamous for this - they're roadblocked on one side by the government bending over backwards to impede proper buildout of real broadband across the country and not just in cities, and on the other side by 80+ aged patriarchs who still are dictating business communication in an audio recorder for their secretaries to type down. These pre-Boomer fossils are only focused on micromanagement and keeping control until the day they literally die, and the Boomer generation isn't much more modern either.
The result? Humble startups led by young people of a diverse background are eating their lunch left and right, and the Boomer+older generation are standing still, scratching their heads and wondering what's going on.
What do software staff have to do with laying rural fibre infrastructure? What do octogenarians have to do with software managers who these days are usually younger than the engineers, either because they went straight into management having negligible interest in tech, or because they soon found out they weren't any good at implementation?
Wanna live in a nice place with a garden for reasonable prices in your own house? Rural Germany is for you. Remote work from there? Yeah, not on 36k modem speeds you're not!
> What do software staff have to do with laying rural fibre infrastructure?
The rural fibre point was only to illustrate how German Mittelstand is blocked on not just the treatment of their tech staff.
> What do octogenarians have to do with software managers who these days are usually younger than the engineers
Micromanaging octogenarians are who are calling the shots in way too many Mittelstand companies, often against the express demands of their younger staff and management level.
> Gaps between contracts are desirable! Having a whole summer off to live on your accumulated war chest and chill out, it's amazing.
If you can do that, that's amazing. Unfortunately many contractors fall into the "if I don't work I'm losing money" mentality and never stop. Then they start converting everything to how many days it cost them to earn and try to never spend money. I've seen it so many times and it's so unhealthy. Strangely it seems to mostly affect people who do get stupid-high rates.
The most absurd case was a contractor guy in a big corp at lunch with employees from the same team - he was pulling 3x our employee rate equivalent and complaining how he can't afford to take any days off or he'd be "losing" his daily rate.
This happens with everyone I know who is self employed. Lawyers, auto shop owners, repair shops. If you bill hourly, or by the job, it is very easy to calculate how much you lose by not working right now.
It's true, and you do get into "If I take the week off I'm losing £X!" headspace sometimes. But it's important to remember that if you don't take that week off, you're more likely to burn out.
And it's also important to remember why you got into it in the first place - being able to take significant amounts of time between contracts was a big part of it for me. I intend to take three months downtime a little later this year.
> Plus jumping on to a new project every few months keeps the work interesting
But contractors are usually hired for their existing skilsets where they can jump in and start contributing immediately. So you end up doing similar projects.
eg: If you are a backend programmer, no one will hire you to work on as a machine learning engineer on day rates.
This is a big myth that contractors are working on something new and exciting every few months. Most of contracting work is short term grunt work.
> rather than stagnating at the same desk for years on end.
No its the opposite. Companies invest in training and take a chance on you doing something new inside in the company.
I've been contracting for 16 years, had a few perm jobs before that. While it's true that you get paid to do what you're already good at that's the case for everyone.
The difference is, as a contractor you can afford to take a few months off and become good at something else - then you'll get a job doing that instead.
You can also pick and choose your projects more freely and there's usually nothing stopping you having long term projects as well as short term gigs, often working for multiple clients at once.
In the US or elsewhere where health insurance is a thing I would probably go perm.
> Companies invest in training and take a chance on you doing something new inside in the company.
I literally LOL'd at this... If you're great at what you're doing, they're keeping you where you are - and "invest in training" could easily mean a 3 day workshop where you find you already know more than the instructor. No thanks.
In answer to the original question, offer more money than you think you can offer and set it up as a 3 month contract-to-perm situation (don't write that down anywhere if you're in the UK - they'll immediately be inside IR35) so you know it's a good match. Alternatively, skin in the game in the form of shares or whatever - but they'd have to be confident in the business, I've rejected that offer in the past.
> become good at something else - then you'll get a job doing that instead.
I don't understand this. How can someone trust you that you picked up some new skill if you have no experience in it. Do you put it on your resume anyways? How can somone even pickup software sales ( for example) on their own free time.
> I literally LOL'd at this... If you're great at what you're doing, they're keeping you where they are - and "invest in training" could easily mean a 3 day workshop where you find you already know more than the instructor. No thanks.
No didn't mean that kind of investment lol. I meant more like taking a chance on you. I was able to convince my manager to let me work on product marketing and sales even though i was regular backend dev. It was one of the best career moments for me. This would've never happened if i was contractor.
> I don't understand this. How can someone trust you that you picked up some new skill if you have no experience in it. Do you put it on your resume anyways? How can somone even pickup software sales ( for example) on their own free time.
Well, for anything which produces tangible output you can show off (I'm obviously thinking of programming) it's fairly straightforward to prove you can do it. Software sales? Yeah, no, I couldn't learn that in my spare time - good point.
Personally a jump to marketing and sales sounds roughly as enticing as the time I was offered either redundancy or a new role as a Lotus Notes dev, but I'm happy it floats your boat.
> it's fairly straightforward to prove you can do it.
How? What do you put on your resume ? I am genuinely curious. Forget about sales, how do you prove that you can now implement their machine learning projects.
Contractors can be let go immediately with almost no repercussions, so the bar for engaging them is much lower than the bar for hiring a full-time employee.
When I was contracting, companies would generally contract me for a week or 2 based on nothing but me telling them I could do something. If I delivered on that initial result, they'd come back for more.
All I have to say to that is "You'd be surprised", particularly when you get a reputation for picking up new things quickly.
> Companies invest in training
Literally never happened for me in 12 years of perm work, for large and small companies. Discounting trivial/patronising things like security training. I've self trained or picked things up as I go along a few times as a contractor, just as I did when perm.
The time you use to self train is an investment by the company that you are expected to carry out. The trappings of instruction are not what makes training educational.
> I've self trained or picked things up as I go along a few times as a contractor
Why would i hire a self trained machine learning engineer with no experience on high day rates when I can hire someone with experience. Ppl hiring contractors don't have time or patience for you to experiment with self training on their dime, I would hire a fulltimer if i have all the time and money for ppl to learn on the job.
Again, all I can really say is "You'd be surprised".
I think ML is probably different, in that it's not something that can be just 'picked up' that easily (AFAICT).
But it's honestly surprised me over the years how often my clients have said "Hey, I know it's not your main area of competence, but do you reckon you could have a go at this?"
Wouldn’t we all just rather have someone competent work at our issues? It is not like most orgs can simply hire some perfectly knowledgeable superstar for their next problem. They can just spin the wheel of fortune and get someone who has the correct experience on paper. I‘d go with the person who solved my last 5 problems competently as well.
> "Hey, I know it's not your main area of competence, but do you reckon you could have a go at this?"
If you're already working in their systems and domain, you probably have a decent idea of how you can address it, even if it's outside your main area of expertise. This happens to me, and... if I'm completely unqualified, I just say "I can't do that, here's someone else who can" and make a referral/connection to someone in my network. That's often the harder part - finding someone in my network who is both competent and available.
The most important thing is probably having that network in the first place, not just to offer referrals but to get good gigs yourself.
I know a few very experienced people who have looked into contracting or freelancing over the past year either for the first time or for the first round in many years. They have good skills and the aptitude to pick up whatever else they need, but without the broad network that comes with years of doing short term gigs, they've found the market very tough to break into. I doubt they would recognise the talk of a seller's market and ever-increasing rates that we see on sites like HN!
If you don't have that network and people actively seeking you out, you get stuck with looking via agencies (= ghosted often if you don't already have exactly the right buzzwords) or the online marketplaces (= low rates, poor quality clients and high risk of problems with the marketplace itself). And even if you do, I've seen more than one person whose whole network basically all fell apart around the same time because whole industries were hit by COVID.
Today even more than usual, it is about who you know as much as what you know.
Ugh, reviews, another part of employee life I haven't missed!
That stuff re: training was not something that was part of my life as a perm worker, in the UK or Australia. The companies certainly liked to pay lip-service to employee development, but I didn't see much evidence of it actually happening.
One of the things I enjoy about contracting is that instead of watching all the videos on harassment and whatever, I usually just have to sign a code of conduct. Those corporate videos are soul crushing.
I guess the exception was one quiz about bribery I had to take at IBM. It asked me what I would do if I were offered a cook to go with my lodgings where I was staying during an engagement. This woke me up to the possibilities of bribery I didn't know people were getting. I'm not exactly looking for bribes, but my the hypotheticals had me thinking way too small.
I received quality training on framework, language and protocols by coworker of that company. Those people spend a good 20% of their time doing that for clients anyway, so they are both comfortable doing it and I thougt it was decent dive ( modules span 20-30 hours )
I was not referring to conplicance trainings. Those, of course you won’t learn a thing.
> But contractors are usually hired for their existing skilsets where they can jump in and start contributing immediately. So you end up doing similar projects.
That's not been the case with our best contractors. Yes, in some cases, they were hired for skillsets they already had. But a couple of them we work with, we were happy to let them learn elixir on company time because they demonstrated solid polyglot skills. And that's paid off in spades.
I've had the same experience with my personal consulting agreements. People sometimes hire you for your experience, and know you'll still bring your judgement, experience, and problem solving mindset to the technology du jour and not start from scratch.
> But a couple of them we work with, we were happy to let them learn elixir on company time
Yes thats what i am saying. Hiring rails devs and letting them learn elixir is no big deal and kind of makes sense. But that not really exciting stuff for senior engineers.
Senior engineers want to learn new domains like sales, learn leadership skills, have a say in product direction ect. That to me is exciting stuff, not learning another web framework.
> Senior engineers want to learn new domains like sales, learn leadership skills, have a say in product direction ect.
Not all senior folks are interested in that stuff though. Some are more interested in picking up new tech and delivering good quality technical work than they are in going outside of tech to other parts of a business, or getting into management.
> That to me is exciting stuff
Sounds to me like you're less interested in the software creation aspects these days, which is also fine :)
One of the contractors was a rails dev, the other one was actually just a polyglot, although we had hired him for Ember.js help.
But the project is also a high impact, high stress, and challenging project (COVID vaccination software) so yes the domain, level of challenge, and impact helps tremendously to stand out.
As a tech exec and senior engineer myself, I find it highly appealing to do contract work mainly because there are many options/opportunities, and the ability to take a gap wherever you want. That's why I've had my own company for roughly 12 years.
I do think it'll remain that way for the foreseeable future. Many of the smartest people I know are happy to remain contractors because of the flexibility.
I will say though, that I would never do this without Obamacare (in the US). If not for that, I would be "stuck" in a W-2 job just so I could insure my family. (honestly not trying to pass judgment on people who have 9-5 jobs, I'm just not wired for climbing the corporate ladder, etc)
Which is why I always say, supporting Medicare for All is (ironically) one of the most pro-business moves we could make. It will unleash entrepreneurial spirit unlike anything we've ever seen in the US. The number of 1-2 person businesses will explode. All the talent that's stuck at large employers so they can get those health benefits for their families (even though, thanks to Obamacare, you really don't need to anymore) will get liberated.
As a contractor training is my own responsibility. I pay for own Pluralsight and O'Reilly subscriptions and conferences all tax dedcutible. I take at least 2 certification exams each year as the motivation to stay current. This has allowed me to improve my resume year after year.
Asking a contractor if they like doing contract work is a bit like asking someone at McDonald's if they like hamburgers. The answer is pretty likely to be "yes".
I'm just taking (minor) issue with the assertion that relatively few engineers want to do contract work. If that were the case you'd expect some contractors to wish they were perm. I think the benefits I outlined are such that quite a few do want to. I've also run into quite a number of perm folk over the years who want to do it but don't quite have the confidence in their own skills to make that leap.
The same in Australia. I doubled my income from going to contract work without even using a business/company structure. Long timers use a company structure for even better gains.
As someone that is employed full-time in the UK I must say you (and others in this thread) have piqued my interest. I am still quite early in my career but the ability to choose contracts (and possibly even the tech stack) sounds like a dream.
Do you or anyone else have advice on how to get started with becoming a contractors?
I would recommend doing your own research on this one. Contractor UK forums are worth reading - http://contractoruk.com
Contracting in the UK used to be pretty good. These days things have changed a lot with further IR35 crackdowns.
I've investigated this a few times personally over the years and am a permanent employee still. Admittedly a few rungs up the corporate ladder these days, but contracting isn't the gravy train it used to be.
Contract is a instant no for me. I've done the math and haven't found them to be competitive long term after what the above commenter mentioned (and that's before all the headaches of actually getting paid). Most of my peers feel the same way.
I contracted for 10 years, then switched to a full-time job at a unicorn. Salary-wise, I calculated my yearly netto for the last contracting year, and submitted it to the HR as the netto salary I want to have. They approved in a blink of an eye.
The main problem with contracting is lack of career path and random, not very interesting projects where the contractor has little say.
The downside of employee life is non-technical meetings, personality trainings and yearly reviews. They make me feel like a kid.
I also miss the luxury of buying VAT-free tax-deducible gadgets.
Bikes are the most interesting. 120% deductable where I live. Notebooks, phones, various hardware. I have half a dozen Mikrotik routers, for example. Some serve their purpose at home, others are for playing.
We had a dumbed down MBTI offspring. And a security training. And the bias/unconscious bias/unknown bias training. And a few more that I can not remember.
Been contracting for decades. Wouldn't do it any other way.
The critical thing is to get a pipeline of folks you know that send work your way. So rarely idle. That was done by working 15 years in the field in a variety of companies. I keep in contact with many old colleagues and remind them I've got bandwidth.
I never made more money than I do contracting now. I've never had to 'chase down money' - never had a bad check, never been stiffed. Had some late checks for sure. Probably due to the quality of my contacts.
It depends. Some midwestern companies want to pay < $100/hr. Californians will pay up to $145/hr for special skills. New York is accustomed to outrageous fees. I feel bad about taking advantage them so I only go up to $165/hr or so. And of course for assurances about hours and duration of the project, discounts.
This is one of my favorite parts about contracting... you still have to deal with a little bit of office politics and drama but you're mostly shielded from it. I love dropping in once a week or so, greasing the relationship wheels, and getting the heck outta there.
Funny - I’m the opposite. I’d much rather make my great rate doing indie work and helping lots of people versus being stuck in one role with a fixed salary and limited mobility.
> The day rates look high, but they have to pay self-employment taxes and health insurance
Most SWEs doing 'contract work' aren't actually 1099 contractors, what it means is they work for an intermediary and then 'contracted out' to a big company with a recognizable name (Google/BofA/Verizon/IBM). These jobs are W2 so you don't pay self-employment tax, they usually have mediocre insurance options, and you lose your job as soon as the work dries up.
It's simply a way for a company to staff up quickly without going through as strict of hiring committee and having any obligation to keep said staff around if plans change.
It's often easier for a department to get a req for a senior/staff contractor (and make salary exceptions) than a FTE, so what happens is departments will offer 200, 250 an hour for temp work but only able to hire engineers for 150k a year because their 'employee' req is slotted lower.
I'm with you. As a QlikSense developer, almost all jobs I see are Contract-To-Hire. The rates look good, but they aren't good enough to justify me having to get my own health insurance, nor do I want to risk 6-months of nothing happening for a full-time position I may not want in the end.
yes exactly. I did contracting when i was single and young. Contracting requires you to tolerate random loss of income, paying health insurance yourself ( in usa), traveling, unpredictable work schedules. Its impossible to afford health insurance for the family, traveling ect when you have kids.
This is currently me. There's no shortage of work and the pay is good but I think I'll need to shift gears to start a family. I don't travel much so that helps but you're spot on about healthcare and the unpredictable nature of this work.
It seems unlikely that the existence of contract work is preventing senior engineers from joining your company. To be blunt, it’s more likely that you’re simply not paying enough to be competitive or you’re not an attractive place to work.
Without knowing more details about your specific situation, the obvious change would be to simply offer more compensation. Higher compensation can make an unattractive job more attractive.