> A borrower who defaults will have the lender come after him not just for the principal, but also for the accrued interest, with the full support of the law.
You have a very narrow understanding of loans. In fact, creditors lose money on loans all the time. Borrowers routinely escape paying out the entirety of their loans.
> Incidentally, the Quran addresses your very claim that interest is the same as trade: https://quran.com/2/275.
> It is very clear that interest is not the same as trading and ethical investments.
You logic is that because allah declares it so, then it must be true. It really is as simple as charging a fee for borrowing an asset. In the case of a cash loan, the asset is cash. You can perform all the mental gymnastics you want, but renting out a car or a property or capital is really all the same principle. You have drawn a silly distinction for equity based on your religion.
All the Islamic financial institutions still charge interest. They just use different names.
> In fact, creditors lose money on loans all the time. Borrowers routinely escape paying out the entirety of their loans.
Just because some lenders lose money, does not make the contract any less predatory or immoral. That's like saying that there are some people who don't wear seatbelts and make it out of accidents without issues. The very fact that the US has trillions of dollars of student and auto and mortgage debt is more than enough to illustrate how much of a disaster usurious money lending is.
> In the case of a cash loan, the asset is cash.
I already explained how it's not the same. A tangible asset is consumed, experiences wear and tear, needs maintenance, etc. Money doesn't need any of that, you get back your asset in pristine condition, plus more.
> All the Islamic financial institutions still charge interest
If they do, then they're not Islamic, regardless if they claim they are. It's quite simple, and many scholars have called them out. Calling something prohibited by a different name to make it palatable is already mentioned in our books, and is outright prohibited. Dancing around the issue by stitching together a series of permissible contracts to result in something that mimics interest is prohibited. We have narrations about this.
The so called "Islamic banks" are a recent problem as I mention in another post. It's one of the many effects of post WWII colonization, where the West forced its values on the lands it occupied.
Dude how do you even survive without participating in ANY interest? If you don’t have a mortgage, you must rent. That property was bought with a loan. You have any bank account or investments? Those institutions provide loans. Did you get an education? How did you pay for it? You gotta be filthy rich to afford all those things in cash.
I’m just amazed that people actually believe what you’re saying. I would never want to live in a society where I am forced to accept charitable scraps from the wealthy elite.
Tangibility is a dumb argument. The car and the property or whatever are being rented out for a profit INCLUDING maintenance costs. Money depreciates and the lender absorbs risk. There’s opportunity cost with money.
Loans can absolutely be predatory! There should be absolutely be proper regulation. But your suggestion that ALL interest is evil just tells me you have no idea how the world works.
You use products and services from companies which use interest. Your government uses interest. It’s all around you.
Not necessarily. But I do my part of not participating in the system, that's the least I can do. Similar to how boycotts happen, if enough people partake, change will come, until then, we stick to our values.
> You have any bank account or investments?
Yes, but I don't have a savings account.
> Did you get an education? How did you pay for it?
Fortunately, I didn't go to college in the US where the student loan industry is out in full force. There are other countries where college is affordable, and for people who can't afford it, provide true student aid. Not "student aid" as in federal loans, student aid where the college works with the individual person depending on his or her family's situation to work out a solution, including discounts.
Also, let's take a step back. Just why are colleges so unaffordable in the US? Easy loans play a big role. The universities see that there is easy money to be had, so they up their prices under false premises. It's basically supply and demand, where the supply is poor folks being pushed to take on crushing debt. It's a very parasitic cycle.
> I would never want to live in a society where I am forced to accept charitable scraps from the wealthy elite.
That's not what I said, it's a strawman fallacy. I said that in the Islamic position, loans are only done as an act of charity. However, Islam heavily encourages people to work and self sustain: https://sunnah.com/riyadussalihin:296. Where does it say to sit back and rely on charity?
The government has a responsibility to provide stable conditions and tackle issues like unemployment. This has nothing to do with interest.
> Money depreciates
Because of interest that the government takes on, forcing it to print more money to devalue the currency, see how this all works out?
Renting and loaning money are fundamentally different. Show me any car rental agreement that goes on for 30 years like a mortgage. That's just one difference.
> But your suggestion that ALL interest is evil just tells me you have no idea how the world works.
I do, and I can't help but be amazed and saddened that people keep crying at the many economic issues and crises that keep happening, not realizing that interest is at the center of the entire mess.
> You use products and services from companies which use interest. Your government uses interest. It’s all around you.
I do not deny it. All I can do is make people aware of the dangers, and that because interest is so prevalent, many of the problems we see today are going to stay until that changes: https://sunnah.com/mishkat:2818. Today, we are all affected by the dust of usury even if we don't partake in it.
You have a very narrow understanding of loans. In fact, creditors lose money on loans all the time. Borrowers routinely escape paying out the entirety of their loans.
> Incidentally, the Quran addresses your very claim that interest is the same as trade: https://quran.com/2/275.
> It is very clear that interest is not the same as trading and ethical investments.
You logic is that because allah declares it so, then it must be true. It really is as simple as charging a fee for borrowing an asset. In the case of a cash loan, the asset is cash. You can perform all the mental gymnastics you want, but renting out a car or a property or capital is really all the same principle. You have drawn a silly distinction for equity based on your religion.
All the Islamic financial institutions still charge interest. They just use different names.