Of course but, there are sub-committees which melt all the agendas into a single pot and create solutions which makes everyone happy. Also some of these languages have or had BDFLs.
Oracle's governance is different from this. C++ is an ISO committee. Python has a lot of working groups, etc.
Java is much more centralized when you compare with others.
Nope, IBM, Azul, Amazon, Red-Hat, Alibaba, Twitter, Microsoft also seat at the Java table.
Should I also start listing the dark sides of each company that seats at ISO C and ISO C++ table?
Python working groups also need money from those corporations, and Python is yet to provide the performance levels of Java, so much for free beer development.
> Nope, IBM, Azul, Amazon, Red-Hat, Alibaba, Twitter, Microsoft also seat at the Java table.
I know Java has stakeholders but, what I'm trying to say is the table is at Oracle's HQ, not somewhere else.
> Should I also start listing the dark sides of each company that seats at ISO C and ISO C++ table?
A primer would be nice, actually.
> Python working groups also need money from those corporations, and Python is yet to provide the performance levels of Java, so much for free beer development.
I've never alleged that Python takes no money from corporations and, Python doesn't aim the performance of Java. Their byte-code even doesn't get optimized. Instead Python prefers native libraries for performance. SciPy, NumPy, PyTorch and others obtain native performance on any system they run and, it's enough for Python.
No need to move the goalposts and compare apples to oranges. Python is never meant to replace Java. Java is not meant to replace system programming languages like C/C++. You may like Java and it might help you to pay the bills but, pushing other languages around just because they don't fill your needs from your point of view is not the correct stance.
Microsoft, the evil company over here, that keeps being compared to Oracle. Several C++20 features like Modules and co-routines were driven by their VC++ implementations.
Apple, the company hated over here by bringing the end of open platforms, without it LLVM and clang wouldn't ever exist.
Google, the spying company and forking Linux with Android, the second major clang and llvm contributor.
IBM and Red-Hat, with their own Linux agenda pushing stuff like systemd hated over here, major GCC contributors.
You are missing the whole point with Java, it isn't about Java, rather all mainstream languages just like Java only move forward with dirty money (from HN point of view), but hey it is cool to hate Oracle.
Hint they are one of the first enterprise contributors to the Linux kernel and have been ever since.
Do you also feel like removing Oracle contributions from the Linux kernel?
And none of the companies you're listing here have been at all litigious about those programming stack contributions like Oracle has been. You're disproving the point that you're trying to make here -- Oracle is uniquely bad about this.
All big companies have a number of dirty deeds in their history, that's right. But I'm not a person who generalizes this to overall companies, incl. Oracle.
I personally don't use Microsoft OSes, however I have several licenses since my family uses them. I also have a personal lincense (albeit it's booted once a year) for some odd application I may need if stars align on the Friday, 13th. OTOH, I always have praised them for their ergonomics research, resulting hardware and their choice for keeping Kinect open back in the day. I won't ever trust them but, I'm not delusional.
I don't use Android devices or Chrome. Only some Google services. However day by day, I'm using their services less and contemplating to switch over to something like Proton. Also I loathe them for making pseudo-open stuff and closing it later. However, they're pioneer of software defined network due to sheer size of their networks.
I have Apple laptops and iPhones but, my main desktops/workstations are vanilla Debian boxes and always will be.
> You are missing the whole point with Java, it isn't about Java, rather all mainstream languages just like Java only move forward with dirty money (from HN point of view), but hey it is cool to hate Oracle.
No, I don't hate Oracle per se. I only hate their money greed. Especially the money greed via Java. I've used their ZFS appliances after they acquire Sun. They were nice up to a point. I applaud them for the enterprise ecosystem around their OracleDB. I like how they managed to fuse Sun's hardware with their software. But I don't like their greed. Maybe this greed is required from their point of view, but I don't like it.
Similarly I'm not keen on nVidia's strong-arming everyone and pushing people around. Also I don't like their arrogance. Yes, CUDA is nice, it's the de-facto standard for now but, it doesn't justify bullying others around.
Microsoft also contributes to Linux Kernel, I'm aware who's doing what.
> Do you also feel like removing Oracle contributions from the Linux kernel?
No, but I feel like you may like replacing it with a Java re-implementation running on a bare-metal HotSpot VM.
Not liking a part of something doesn't need to spread all over that thing. Do you leave your car to a junkyard because you dislike the engine sound at a particular RPM? Do you change your PC because its USBs are a little slow to a similar model? Same idea.
Oracle's governance is different from this. C++ is an ISO committee. Python has a lot of working groups, etc.
Java is much more centralized when you compare with others.