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I am sure it will be hard for India to come up to that level if people just keep leaving for greener pastures. Europe didn’t get to be Europe by doing that. Of course it’s your choice to leave, I don’t know it somehow smells bad to my value system, but that’s just my problem.

If enough people keep landing in Europe like this, I am pretty sure sooner or later, Europeans will be upset. It’s inevitable and human nature. Fixing your own place is better than crashing at somebody else’s.



> Europeans will be upset.

To an extent, they are. But most of the conversation here seems to be about refugees and asylum seekers rather than legal immigrants. It helps that I'm more than willing to adopt the European way of life: fashion, food, work-life balance and all the rest of it.

As to your first point, that was the crux of my post. I no longer care (nor am offended by, mind you!) whether you judge me or not. I know how much vitriol coursed through my veins every day I was in Chennai, Bangalore, Delhi etc. And I know how much more at peace I am in France. I am a better human because of it; kinder, more useful to society etc. I would not trade any of it for more abstract notions of whether Europeans as a whole will be upset by the wider trends.


> And I know how much more at peace I am in France. I am a better human because of it; kinder, more useful to society etc.

At the risk of judging you, are you sure you are kinder? You just wrote a paragraph about “the typical Indian” in a fairly condescending tone and how you get upset over trivial things like “Indian English” phrases.

It’s okay to not like the Indian lifestyle, not everyone has to, even if you are Indian. But please give people a chance and be less judgmental in order to actually practice kindness. Kindness isn't selectively applied to the people whose lifestyle you like.


Haha, fair enough, you mentioned it twice now, so I concede that I might be kinder, but I'm still not kind per se! I suppose I was burnt by a youth spent yearning to escape and hence the reactions. I promise I'm pretty harmless in real life :)


Again, I hear you and relate to a lot of things you said. As I get older though, those things seem trivial and I’ve learnt not to idolize one culture/lifestyle over others. You realize that’s just the way people are in that part of the world and it’s not due to malice.


I wouldn't be too sure about it not being due to malice. All too often, what is plentiful is treated with contempt and not respected. One thing that is available in plenty in this side of the world is human capital. I'll leave you the dots to be joined.


you wouldn't say that if you had to grind a life out in the lower tech companies in india. it is soul crushing sometimes


Only sometimes? :)

It's not just the "lower tech companies", btw. It depends on many factors which include but are not limited to, prevailing company culture, your immediate manager, the existence of an implicit (or explicit) cabal that calls the shots in your team -- which cabal could well exist because its members passed out of the same three-letter institute, say ...

Which is just a long-winded way of saying that your soul is liable to be crushed in any kind of company in India if you have the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


It sounds like you have immigrated perfectly. I always assumed that by the next generation, people are basically locals if their parents immigrated well. You're an example that it also works well within one generation.

But many european people who lean against open immigration policies will not make the rational distinction between you and someone who has not intergrated very well, and will instead judge you based on e.g. your skin color or your last name.

I hope you don't have to deal with that!


I don't want to sound rude but mob doesn't differentiate between refugees and legal immigrants.


The law, insofar as it exists, shouldn't differentiate between mobs and criminals either.


Assuming the mob is actually breaking a law, there is no differentiation.


Laudable sentiments indeed. Could you also expound a little on _how_ exactly you expect the parent(s) to "fix their own place"?

Not everyone has to be a revolutionary. It is indeed human to tire of the fight, and equally human to want to live life without having to fight all the way.

It is easy indeed to judge everybody else on the basis of (y)our value system; it is harder to walk a few steps in the other person's shoes.


It's funny that that reminded me of James Damore. After his memo, there was I think an NYT article interviewing some women at Google's campus about their thoughts. One of them said something to the effect of "I just like to code, I'm not doing it to be revolutionary", but she was almost forced to take a position just through circumstances.


Being forced to take a position by circumstances beyond one's control is an unfortunate situation to be in. Worse still is being judged for it -- especially in a discussion without nuance. Moving past these events (and more) takes a fair bit of effort.


"Europe didn’t get to be Europe by doing that..."

No, because all the troublemakers left to the US!

I kid. I kid.


There’s an element of truth to this: in the 19th century a substantial number of Irish republicans found refuge in the US – enough to invade Canada! [1]

In the case of Australia, the trouble-makers were sent there against their will.

[1] https://guides.loc.gov/chronicling-america-fenian-invasions-...


England got rid of all sorts of troublemakers by sending then down to Australia for a long time :D

Somehow, it actually turned out great for both.


Except for the Aborigines (native Australians)


(American here.) No, no. You have a point.


Me: Liberal Democrat

Looks in my closet: Variety of legal assault rifles that would shock a European.

Looks in my Garage: 4x4 Pickup truck and a plated dirtbike.

America is packed to the brim with contrarian troublemakers.

But we make some damn good beers.


[Heartchuckle.gif]




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