Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Not mentioned in this article (although it's in the Release Notes [1]): the amazing work done regarding the macOS compositor.

This should give pretty noticeable speed and battery improvements on Retina Macbooks.

[1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/70.0/releasenotes/#new




Game changer! Now from my POV Firefox is the best desktop browser, period. No caveats.


Is there a good transition path for someone who uses a lot of Google products? In particular, I use Chrome across all my devices, and I depend on the ability to search my history/recent tabs/etc from anywhere. Will Firefox give me the same ability? Is the transition literally just: Install Firefox everywhere and start using it instead?


> Is the transition literally just: Install Firefox everywhere and start using it instead?

Yep. I did this about a year ago. You have to create a Mozilla account (if you haven't already) in order to sync your tabs and history across devices, but that should be a given.

I find the Firefox sync a bit clunky compared to Chromes though. I think Chrome sends udpates to Google on each change whereas Firefox polls and updates on a schedule which means sometimes if you put a device to sleep (or if you're on iOS and the app gets suspended) your history and tab state won't be propagated and it'll be missing on your other devices which can be frustrating when you're away from those devices.


Agreed to what everyone else said, but to me the killer feature of Firefox Sync is that you can send tabs from one browser to another, so I can find links on my work computer and ship them directly to my home computer or phone to read later, and they'll just show up when it syncs next.


I'm actually not sure if this is a native Chrome feature, but I can instantly send tabs to my other devices with right click > "send to your devices" > list of devices with a Google account signed in (Which is my phone and laptop for me on my desktop).


It's exactly the same in FF: https://i.vgy.me/vBP4rF.png


> Will Firefox give me the same ability?

Yes.

> transition literally just: Install Firefox everywhere and start using it instead?

Almost. You will have to create a firefox account and export/import your bookmarks. That's it.


Pretty much, yes. You’ll have to make a Firefox account, but then tabs and plugins will sync everywhere you log in.


Also, passwords.


The only feature you may miss is auto-fill of credit card info. It's saved my ass abroad before.


Firefox has credit card auto-fill capabilities: https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/online-shopping-autofill-cr...


A good password manager will handle that easily.


As long as you use it everywhere in the same way you presently use Chrome everywhere, yes. You can also import a certain amount (history & bookmarks, not, I think, current & recent tabs) to get started.


Firefox Sync let's you syncronize Bookmarks, Open tabs, Logins, History, Add-ons and Preferences across devices by logging in once with username password


Here’s the Sync security FAQ to answer javajosh’s follow up question, which I can’t reply to directly.

“How Firefox Sync keeps your data safe even if TLS fails” https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-firefox-sync-keeps-...


If you click on the 'x hours ago' part of the comment next to the username you will get a parent link and can then reply to and save individual comments.


Couple of questions about this: does FF import Chrome logins? Also, can Mozilla read the data or are they doing client-side-encryption?


Yes, it can now import logins/passwords from Chrome/Chromium on macOS, Windows support already existed for some years.

> Passwords can now be imported from Chrome on macOS in addition to existing support for Windows

https://www.mozilla.org/firefox/70.0/releasenotes/


Wow. That's the final bit. Thank you!


I'm not sure about the former, but the answer to your second question is yes, they do client-side encryption: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-firefox-sync-keeps-...


Can each of those be turned on or off per device, and dont get sneakily turned back on during upgrades?


edit: Sorry for anyone I misled. You can't opt a particular kind of data out of syncing per device. You can only enable/disable for the whole account.

Yes, each (bookmarks, history, passwords, tabs ) can be turned on or off per device basis.


This is incorrect AFAIK. The sync toggle for a data type is for the whole account, not per-device.


You are right. Always thought it worked like that but indeed it is for the whole account and not per device. My bad.


by way of logging in/out, yes


I'm doing this but it's painful. I am still stuck on GMail.


This should be the headline feature. I've been following this bug for so long on Bugzilla. The energy improvement is really incredible.


The performance is what has kept me on Chrome on Mac. Going to re-install FF now and give it a whirl. Thanks for this info!


I just tried this. Interestingly I'd left it on v68 and it cooked my MBP, fans all on max immediately. When I updated to 70 it seems to work perfectly. CPU temp in the 40s. Gonna leave it on in the background and see if it suddenly spikes.


The same here. Have you tried with FF add-ons that normally are the culprit for CPU hogging?


Yeah, they're all on. Seems to be fine thus far, and there's an article about what they actually did to fix it, so I'm ready to say it's fixed.

Only minor gripe is userChrome.css seems to not be used now.


You need to enable it in about:config

Set this option to true: toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets


That's a slightly worrying precedent, they're calling the way to diaable certain bits of obnoxiousness (the header bar in Tree Style Tabs comes to mind) "legacy", which is usually a precursor to removal.

Is there a new method available/forthcoming, or is this more control planned to be wrenched out of user's hands?


Was set to true already.


Was it referring to browser.xul? There’s no XUL left, so you might need to change that to browser.xhtml.


You can also use Brave browser, it's basically Chrome with the ad tracking removed. With that, almost no reason to switch to another browser.


You’re still contributing to the Chromium engine monoculture, though.


Guess we are dealing with purists here. Mind you that Chromium is free and open-source just like MySQL. A strategical move by the community to fork MySQL to MariaDB to ensure it remained free and open from the tech giant after it was acquired by Oracle. How Brave is any different? It made a similar move. Some people hate crypto. Fine. Personally I've never used the Brave crypto. Perhaps FF 70 has completely fixed its performance problem, sure, happy to switch. But before that really happens Brave is still a viable interim solution.


The issue is the engine. There are few big engines out there and chromium is taking a lot of the market.

The issue with this is that they could start controlling the standards and everyone would have to follow behind instead of everyone working and doing what’s best for consumers.

While chromium is open source, that doesn’t mean they have to accept merges from the community. It only means that they have to provide the source code. Yes it can be forked, but now you have to maintain or develop your engine. If they’re the dominant ones and are setting standards, that won’t help much.

By using another one you are helping keep a neutral ground.

The difference between MySQL and MariaDB is that you have PostgreSQL, Oracle, SQLite, MSSQL among a bunch of others, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_relational_datab...

So the issue isn’t forking or not, but the fact that it’s still close enough that gives chromium the competitive edge and could kill the market.


Brave looks amazing, the question I have is, just like how Google Chrome, can they be trusted as a private entity?


Well, they're shilling their own worthless cryptocurrency, so it is obvious to me that they cannot be.


It is an opt-in system. They're not making you use it and you don't lose anything by choosing not to opt-in. What exactly are they doing that you would consider "shilling"?

https://brave.com/brave-rewards/


What would you call creating a new alt-coin and implying it will some day have value?

That entire industry is a dumpster fire of greed, fraud, and misrepresentation.


A good chunk of HN is really fed up with cryptocurrencies.

Whoever are pushing them - including Telegram that I otherwise like - are damaging their reputation in my eyes.


>injects own custom http headers so advertisers can uniquely identify you even easier

>takes crypto donation hostage and opens funds in other people's names (i.e. scams crypto to artificially create demand for that BAT)

If you use Brave you literally are part of the problem.


Interesting. Any downside of Brave? Small userbase, etc ?


I use it in my Android, because it allows me to have an ad blocking browser without rooting and without installing any additional software.

My gripe there is that it started showing push notifications of ads!!! Once I blocked all its notifications everything went to normality.


This would be a showstopper for me. Turning off the notifications addresses only part of the issue, I would never trust them again.

Why not use Firefox?


Battery life is my primary concern, and unless they release battery life benchmarks I’d be hard pressed to switch off of Safari.


Last I checked it was looking like they would now be as "good" as Chrome, which is much worse than Safari. Hopefully that improved or will soon improve.


Safari means no ublock, the web without is annoying.


There are other options (paid ones) that are equal —or even better since they are quite automatic— than ublock.

The only two things I'm missing in safari to be hones are:

- A no-script extension or similar.

- Sync part of my work is on a no macOS machines I don't have safari there, so no sync. I partially overcome this with bookmaster for bookmarks, but I still missing tabs and read it later list. However, firefox doesn't have this later feature on desktop —and I don't why.


Firefox Sync syncs your tabs, bookmarks, passwords, etc. Your read it later list is synced through Pocket (which is owned by Mozilla). They exist on desktop and mobile.


Still using pinboard; one of the best investment I made in my entire life.


Pocket sucks big time!


FWIW, I started using 1Blocker recently with Safari and have found it to be quite good. YMMV.


nice try.


Disconnect works well enough.


Yeah, I just switched to Safari recently because of battery life


Recently switched from Safari to Firefox because of the awful extensions environment in Safari but definitely missing the battery life. Really wish one browser could just get everything right


This is what I am most excited about. I have been using the improvements through nightly since they were released, I think little more than a month, and I couldn't be happier. I'd hate to have to use Chrome and I welcome the competition to webkit.


Trying it out and it absolutely flies!!


Would this bring it up to par with safari's power consumption?


I don't know about other usages, but energy consumption while using YouTube is important to me (usually have something playing while I work) so I just did a quick measurement.

Safari 13.0.2 versus Firefox 70.0 versus Chrome 77.0

Playing the same YouTube video at the same quality (1080p) and watching Energy Impact in Activity Monitor while the video played, I saw averages of: Safari used 20, Firefox used 45, Chrome used 45.

So on that task at least Safari is still king, but Firefox is on par with Chrome.


You could try a plugin which forces h264 Youtube. Just about anything made in the last decade has mature hardware support for decoding h264, but not necessarily for VP8/9. This may be what's going on here.



See https://mozillagfx.wordpress.com/2019/10/22/dramatically-red...

More work is planned to reduce the energy usage for scrolling and full screen video. Though I guess for your example you don't watch things fullscreen.


I just checked with the Intel Power Gadget on a 2015 MBP 10.14.6, iGPU only, same video at 1080p, package power consumption (CPU + iGPU):

~6,4W average in Safari 13.0.3

~8,6W average in Firefox 70


Safari still uses significantly less CPU while decoding video.


Safari does not support vp8 or vp9 when playing youtube, and youtube serves h264 instead. h264 is less efficient in terms of compression ratio (more to download for the same quality), but h264 is decoded in hardware on OSX, and VP8 or VP9 isn't, which explains what you see.

This is why, for example, Safari does not have 4k video on Youtube, while being perfectly capable of playing 4k videos in general.

Depending on the machine, VP9 can be decoded in hardware on Firefox on Windows, but chip support is limited.

All that said, we're working on our video playback performance as we speak, especially on OSX (because it was so bad a few release back), but also in general.


Thanks for the explanation.

I found this extension that forces FF to use H264 instead: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/h264ify/

On my old MBP I'd rather consume more bandwidth than more more CPU.


Thanks for the link. On Firefox/Linux nvidia drivers, I don't see much difference in h264 vs VP9


We don't do hardware decoding on Linux for now, because we don't do hardware acceleration for graphics by default on Linux.

Web Render might allow doing it properly, since the rendering is not on the CPU anymore.


Also from the Q&A at the end:

> Safari’s compositor is entirely Core Animation based; Safari basically skips step 2.

(Step 2 is "the Firefox “compositor” assembles Gecko layers to produce the rendering of the window")


You think this affects video decoding?

Anyway, I imagine that's the price to pay for being crossplatform. You can't implement everything for every platform. Safari only has to work on macOS/iOS.


> You think this affects video decoding?

Speaking for Chrome's implementation, efficiently rendering video on macOS does require CALayer compositing, but it's not sufficient.

Only certain types of decoded frames can be efficiently scanned out (different from the types that can be used efficiently in OpenGL compositing). Actually entering the most efficient fullscreen video mode requires some magic. Matching macOS behavior exactly when a fallback to OpenGL compositing is required can be difficult (eg. colorspace bugs can result in flickering).

I have not looked at the new code in Firefox, but I would expect that not all of the benefit would be realized in a first release. In any case it's a huge undertaking to support a single platform; congrats to the team for making it happen!


Maybe just don't watch videos inside your Browser. You know there's youtube-dl+mpv?


iina can ply youtube stream without pre-downloading them. You have also Picture in Picture following you on all desktop.

iina is open source and have a lot of codec available.

I don't know if it change something on energy consumption, though.


I don't know what iina is, but youtube-dl + mpv mentioned by Angeo34 does exactly that (stream videos without pre-downloading them). Youtube-dl just gets the stream URL and mpv plays it. And it's easy to use, just:

    mpv https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0


Should this affect memory bloat? Because I still have to restart ffx regularly on my Mac because it uses upward of 8gb RAM over time


After years of waiting, it's hard to believe it's finally fixed. Will try this out immediately.


i am very very eager to test and use this. FF is my main driver but it's a heat machine on my mac 10.11.6. I wonder if i gain something to upgrade my macOS (4g ram :()


anyone knows how firefox is on iOS? vs Safari/Chrome? :) Want to switch, but wondering whether it's worth it cross-platform


does anybody know if all of these are available in nightly?


Yes, Nightly is (I'm simplifying a bit but it's generally true) release + a few weeks of patches + different default settings, sometimes experimental things enabled, etc.

I'm running Nightly on OSX and I confirm all those improvements are there, but more are coming.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: