I'm too tired to properly respond to this. It's clear that you don't know what NOLOH is, or the advantages it provides. By it's nature, it's not equivalent to GWT, and provides significant advantages over doing web development in most other frameworks or languages. The fact that it abstracts away JavaScript is only one of it's features, and as mentioned previously you can still use JavaScript. Furthermore, if you read the "Lightweight, On-demand, and Beyond" article I linked you to you would've seen how it's not middleware in the traditional sense and actually produces lightweight and on-demand output for target devices that is significantly more optimized and targeted than one could ever hope to do manually. Either way it's irrelevant as this just sidetracks from the real topic of discussion in that it's not necessary to learn or use JavaScript and that in most development cases it's advantageous and faster not to.
There was no reason for you to bundle NOLOH negatively in your response without actually taking a hard look at it. From your initial statements it's clear that you don't fully substantiate your arguments, but rather phrase things for most impact, which just makes it very difficult to have a meaningful conversation.
Frankly, I'm sick of having these type of discussions on Hacker News, I expect a higher class of individual here, but over the years I've clearly forgotten to lower my expectations. I feel like I'm on Fox news dealing with an aggressive host who isn't listening to what I'm saying and just lists false associations for psychological deception.
I'm very comfortable with my history and experience and can't be bullied into thinking otherwise. Your reasoning of the history behind why people wrote frameworks is flawed, but frankly, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what I say, or what I link to, or what arguments I present. You have your viewpoint, which is okay. It's clear from the personality type you expose in your response that any further response would fall on deaf ears.
An aside, NOLOH has been around in some form since 2005, pre-AJAX craze, so we can definitely appreciate the evolution of the web.
I would have liked to have read both articles you linked to, but in fact, all I got were abstracts pointing to a magazine that costs $5.00 to read. Perhaps it might have been better to link to the actual website: http://www.noloh.com/
For comparison, here are some websites put together by companies that ycombinator has funded, and which, I believe, are html/javascript without the middleman.
Your proof is in the pudding makes no sense, and just reinforces my comments about fox news earlier.
There are plenty more NOLOH sites, those are sites where the users submitted their site via our submit site functionality and is no way representative of all of NOLOH sites. Furthermore, you selectively chose the sites you wanted to list.
Whether a company is using NOLOH or html/javascript directly has nothing to do with whether someone needs to learn JavaScript. At this point you're just being combative for argument's sake, which is what I didn't want to deal with.
Surely, most sites on the web are written directly in a combination of HTML/JavaScript and some server-side language, but that in no way means that's the best approach. With your logic one can say that there's no place for any tools, since the majority of sites will always be in the status quo, or previous norm.
There was no reason for you to bundle NOLOH negatively in your response without actually taking a hard look at it. From your initial statements it's clear that you don't fully substantiate your arguments, but rather phrase things for most impact, which just makes it very difficult to have a meaningful conversation.
Frankly, I'm sick of having these type of discussions on Hacker News, I expect a higher class of individual here, but over the years I've clearly forgotten to lower my expectations. I feel like I'm on Fox news dealing with an aggressive host who isn't listening to what I'm saying and just lists false associations for psychological deception.
I'm very comfortable with my history and experience and can't be bullied into thinking otherwise. Your reasoning of the history behind why people wrote frameworks is flawed, but frankly, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what I say, or what I link to, or what arguments I present. You have your viewpoint, which is okay. It's clear from the personality type you expose in your response that any further response would fall on deaf ears.
An aside, NOLOH has been around in some form since 2005, pre-AJAX craze, so we can definitely appreciate the evolution of the web.