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Nitrogen-fixing trees “eat” rocks, play pivotal role in forest health (oregonstate.edu)
132 points by ph0rque on March 17, 2019 | hide | past | favorite | 18 comments


Nitrogen fixation is an important part of permaculture. Oregon State offers an online certificate in the subject. https://pace.oregonstate.edu/catalog/permaculture-design-cer...


As we're on the subject. Has anyone got any good pointers to any actually scientifically sound research/advice on gardening/growing crops on a smaller scale.

The amount of rubbish I've heard spouted by gardeners about what you should and shouldn't do is crazy.

And I'm not even talking about the more 'spiritual' side. Even seemingly mainstream type stuff like companion planting isn't internally consistent.


Permaculture is going to become a very important subject for study. I have recently gotten interested in the subject and the results have been amazing even in very unpromising conditions. Geoff Lawtons work in Jordan is inspiring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xcZS7arcgk


Greening the desert, I've been following that for months, after watching the Oregon YouTube channel on permaculture. I've just spent an hour following up on Managed Aquifer Recharge, albeit not entirely relevant in my part of Europe.

To bring it back to HN, I keep thinking there must be ways to model landscapes, and planting strategies to increase permaculture efficiency, although probably the antithesis of permaculture.

The issue seems to be putting plants together so they can support each other in close quarters, sounds like an optimisation problem to me, I've called it augmented permaculture before.


Your description of an app for designing / modeling edible landscapes with permaculture principles in mind is exactly what I am working on: https://automicrofarm.com/app/

In fact, I thought about creating a "digital twin" for your edible landscape, and wrote about it here: https://automicrofarm.com/blog/2018/11/digital-twin.html


I’d love to buy an acre somewhere and just set up a food forest.


Underground rocks are not static. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saprolite


In the lowland northwest, red alder is typically the first tree to get established after a disturbance.


Interesting fact is that red alder trees are used for fancy furniture, and it's the wood used in Fender Stratocaster guitars. It's also probably the best wood for smoking fish.


Boy what clickbait! :)

"red alder ... through its symbiotic relationship with nitrogen-fixing bacteria"

That's more like it. No such thing as a nitrogen-fixing tree, as far as we know; only micro-organisms perform nitrogen fixation.


Its not clickbait, its just efficient language. We have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria in our gut but don't explicitly distinguish it every time we refer to human digestion.

Actually this article and study is not intending to reveal anything new about how trees and other plants fix nitrogen (using microbes). It is revealing that the symbiotic arrangements (far from entirely understood) also cause the breakdown and release of scarce nutrients from rocks, enabling increased growth and building soil fertility over time.


We wouldn't say that a people perform some very specific, detailed process that is attributed to gut bacteria. E.g. "humans break down oligosaccharides".

Digestion, as such, is a concept independent of gut bacteria.


Peas and legumes 'fix nitrogen' using the same mechanism.

Dairy farmers produce milk, gardeners grow plants, I brew beer.

Creating a situation where something you want to happen, happens, generally means attributing the thing to whoever set the situation up.


"Nitrogen-fixing" is a very specific term: it refers to the chemical process by which nitrogen is drawn from the atmosphere.

A dairy farm produces milk, but it doesn't lactate. Gardeners do not photosynthesize.


What's the general term that you would prefer everyone to use then?


I've given this a few minutes of thought. Basically, the situation is that some bacteria take nitrogen from the atmosphere and then spew out ammonia and related compounds, which are taken up by the roots of the symbiotic plants. I would call this "fertilization" (in the agricultural sense).


But then it becomes ambiguous whether you're talking about fertilising the tree, or the tree fertilising something else. Perhaps self fertilising? But that sounds like reproduction.

And that's assuming we're living in a world where you can petition the World English Language Governing Body to make the necessary changes to the language.

But for better or worse that body doesn't exist so we are stuck with what we've got, and at the moment people talk about nitrogen fixing plants, so if you want to communicate with people, you need to use those terms.

That isn't clickbait, that's just making sure a headline doesn't turn into an off topic essay.


> whether you're talking about fertilising the tree, or the tree fertilising something else.

Of course, I would say that the tree is being fertilized or receiving fertilization, not that it's fertilizing.

The effect of the bacteria can be replaced by animal waste, decaying biological matter, or the application of a commercial fertilizer.

> self fertilising

That would be false and absurd; it means that the plant is decomposing in order to feed itself.

> and at the moment people talk about nitrogen-fixing plants.

Not people who can pass a fifth grade science exam. Nothing to do with English usage. "Nitrogen-fixing credit card" is grammatical English.




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