For whom on HN are pat downs intimidating and/or humiliating? I personally don't mind it at all, but I can understand that they could be a problem for somebody.

I'm much more worried about CCTV's everywhere, cell phone tracking, internet usage tracking, tracking cars with cameras on highways that read number plates, etc. All these tools are extremely well suited for keeping a dictator in place. I'm afraid that if we get one, then we're not getting rid of him any time soon.

Me. It's insane. It serves no purpose other than to intimidate and harasses normal citizens just trying to get from point A to point B. The fact that I'm assumed to be that stupid, plus the 1984-esqe overtones really, really gets to me.

Right. So it's not so much the physical aspects of pat downs, but the reasons behind the pat downs?

I mean, I was raised Catholic, so I'm not exactly the model of immodesty, but yes, its not the 'omg they'll touch my junk' part as it is the infringement on basic human rights part.

And being reminded that some people think this is okay. And that most people accept it.

I have slightly unusual polititcal views, so such a visible reminder that I'm 'the only person who cares' really riles me up.

I fly out of Boston, which has the machines, so opting out has become part of travel process for me. TSA agents were more aggressive with my last trip out (Sunday, October 31), not only with loudly announcing several times that they had an opt-out, but also in the pat down, which included pulling the clothes from my body and looking between the cloth and underthings. ("I have to clear your waistband," is how the TSA agent explained it.)

So, it's humiliating. But I'm not going to stop opting out. The difference between the pat down and the machine for me is this -- the pat down happens in the moment, between two people. There's no record. It exists only in the time it takes. It can't be stored, it can't be transmitted, it can't be tied to a flight record or anything else at some future date. It forces TSA to confront what they're doing, and it's one small way I can say at the airport, I am human, I'm not an abstraction. I have rights, respect them.

So you haven't seen or had the new pat-downs then? They're tantamount to a strip search. They lift, they separate.

The choice for airline passengers in the US is now: be photographed nude, or have the TSA jostle your luggage. Reasonableness has been left at the door.

Raising data tracking concerns is a false dichotomy; I can hate and distrust the expansion of both.

You're right I've only experienced European pat downs so far. However, I doubt that any kind of pat down would bother me much except if it takes an unreasonable amount of time. Somehow they nearly always select me randomly. I make sure that I'm the one enjoying the pat down the most by smiling and winking at the officer when I get selected.

Agreed that the photographing and pat downs are unreasonable. One time I got selected for a pat down because the metal detector went off of my belt. They checked me thoroughly, but they didn't even bother to open my bag even though it contained a cooking set in a 30x30x30cm metal container...I could have put three guns and a kg TNT in there and they wouldn't have noticed it on their screen.

>One time I got selected for a pat down because the metal detector went off of my belt.

I think they have an override under the desk that they can push - I get stopped every time (internal UK flights, not many). I've always found I'm stopped often, I'm bearded and usually have a backpack.

Other recent posts on HN have said that the TSA is planning to start more thorough pat-downs specifically to discourage people from opting out. You may not mind the pat-down right now, but I'm not sure you'll be saying the same thing a few months from now.

Good thing I'm too poor to fly these days.