Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit | llsf's commentslogin

And to some extent, I also drive with my ears, not only with 2 eyes. I often can ear a car driving on the blind spot. Not saying that I do need to ear in order to drive, but the extra sensor is welcome when it can helps.

There is an argument for sure, about how many sensors is enough / too much. And maybe 8 cameras around the car is enough to surpass human driving ability.

I guess it depends on how far/secure we want the self-driving to be. If only we had a comprehensive driving test that all (humans and robots) could take and be ranked... each country lawmakers could set the bar based on the test.


The other day I slammed the brakes at a green light, because I could hear sirens approaching -- even though the buildings on the corner prevented any view of the approaching fire trucks or their flashing lights. Do Teslas not have this ability?

I don‘t know whether Tesla‘s self-driving mode could do that.

However, notice that deaf people are allowed to drive, ie. you are not expected to be able to have full hearing to be allowed on the road.


Nuanced point: Even if vision alone were sufficient to drive, adding sensors to the cars today could speed up development. Tesla‘s world model could be improved, speeding up development of the vision only model that is truly autonomous.

I do not think they store any biometric data, they just compute a key out of the image. So, those keys are useless. Very difficult to create a fake living hand with all the living blood vessels with just a key.


I guess the "biometric identification linked to a payment instrument" issue is mostly trust.

Do I trust the entity that identify me using biometrics ?

Do I trust it with my biometric data ?

If I link a payment method, do I trust it with access to my payment details ?

With Amazon Go at WF, I was fine to let Amazon know and store my hand biometrics, and I was fine enough with Amazon know what I purchase at WF, as long as I had something back (loyalty program).

Scaling this though would negatively impact the trust. Maybe I do not want Amazon to know "everything" I purchase everywhere (even though Visa/MC/Amex already know it...)


I agree. And being Amazon might have created some reluctance for other retailers to adopt the technology.

I wish Amazon could sell the tech to someone more neutral and have it deployed more broadly.


But like OP mentioned, you need to reach for your phone, open it, open the app, show the QR code to scan it.

As opposed to just wave your hand, to get your discounts, pay and get your points.


Well, that is not just a payment solution. It can be linked to other things, and primarily to your Prime account, but it could be linked to other loyalty programs too.

So when you wave your hand, you get your Prime discounts, you pay and you get your points. Just by waving your hand. No need to reach for a phone, an app, a card, scan a QR code, etc.

The tech had some advantages. I used it every time at WF. I liked it.


Other PoS systems I used have no trouble linking my CC to my loyalty account.


But you all realize that the OP did not even have to reach for his phone. He just waved his hand to get his Prime discounts, pay and get his rewards.

I get that it is fairly easy to use the app on the phone (although my WF has terrible reception, which is frustrating enough when I come to pick up packages), but waving your hand would still be faster.


Not every response in the entire comment page is directed at the OP

I get it, but you realize that the OP just waved one hand and was done (with paying, getting his discounts and points, etc.).

When we have to reach for the phone, unlock it (with biometric), tap to open the Whole Foods app, and then present the phone to scan a QR code.

While it might be not much more, it is more than just show one hand.


I agree in theory, but yet I have an iPhone, and Apple is managing my biometrics. I do not have Clear, or TSA preCheck, etc. but still my biometrics are in the US database.

So, in practice, I am not sure if that is truly a non-starter for "normies" and even some "techies". I already gave up on my face biometrics living in US.


Your biometrics are in the secure enclave of your specific phone. Apple doesn't have them in a database.


They do have ways to access to them, which is the same thing in my book.

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/809154/apple-silen...


I don't think this shows that at all?


How else can you patch an exploit if you don't try it first? The first step in reverse engineering malware is to try the exploit in a controlled environment.


It all boils down to the tradeoff between convenience and security. I don't think it is particularly easy to replicate a living hand with all the blood vessels. And it is not particularly easy to get a NFC ring with a secure element compatible with payment terminals.

I thought that the engineering team at Amazon did a great job with Amazon One. I wish someone could pick up the tech and carry on.


Yeah 25 years ago people said stuff like that about fingerprint scanners, and then they got hacked by literal gummy bears:

https://www.theregister.com/2002/05/16/gummi_bears_defeat_fi...

For 2020's-era palm scanners you don't have to replicate a 3D hand -- just like a video chat doesn't replicate my 3D face. You just have to emit photons (some of them infrared, yes) in the correct pattern. The hack won't look like a 3D-printed hand, it'll look like a display panel that works beyond visible wavelengths. It'll probably be some device developed for a totally unrelated market, and then one day "whoops, all those palm scanners are 0wn3d" (natürlich auf Deutsch) will be a talk title at CCC.

But all this is academic. The real problem with biometrics is that when your password is a body part, you can't change your password.


I agree and I get it. But at the same time, it is only used for payment and discounts at grocery store. Payment with a card is even less secure here in US. So, I do not think that Amazon Go was particularly unsecured since it was just for credit card payment.

If someone manages to replicate my pulsing blood vessels from my hand and trick the scanner, that would be fine. I would dispute the purchase, and the store would not even pull the camera footage, and just refund.

Amazon Go was not used to hold access to bank accounts or crypto wallets. I think it was a good technology and balance between convenience and security, for the purpose (grocery loyalty and payment).

A twin or even sometimes a relative (son and mother) can open an iphone and its banking apps using the facial recognition. That is more concerning to me than Amazon Go palm scanning for groceries.


> Payment with a card is even less secure here in US.

This is not even remotely true. Credit card chips do real cryptography.

It's been a decade since I saw a card terminal without a chip reader, except for parking meters and soft drink vending machines.


Sure, but that piece of plastic/metal can be stolen or misplaced. Anyone can use my credit card then.


Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: